The first is Richard Armitage’s weigh-in on Trump’s election. There’s a discussion about it here, where Servetus posted it. I saw early fan replies on FB. Almost all were approving or glowing or gushing. I haven’t checked all the replies, or Twitter all day, but I did see Armitage’s own comment/reply in my notifications awhile ago.
Perhaps Richard Armitage realized on his own, or more likely, was aware of some fan criticism. He decided to explain and educate us – because we didn’t know he quoted from the play he is currently in at The Roundabout Theater. Apparently, he thought we probably didn’t read Mile Bartlett’s play any number of times or travel across the country and even the globe to see that play from one to maybe 26 times, and some are still counting. Maybe he didn’t know that fans who missed those opportunities were lobbying hard for a digital version of the play he is in or scouring Twitter for SD shots and images of the stage.
Well, we did. And we know that the first quote is no different than the second quote which resonated with Richard Armitage, for its lack of pertinence to the current situation and the potential future. Perhaps the word wall resonated, and a wall is relevant to the conversation – but trust me, no one believes now that, metaphorically, anything like The Wall is going to be coming down any time soon.
Either will any ceilings.
Armitage Agonistes 
He’s free to have anything resonate with him that he likes and I think we’re free to have any reaction to that “resonance” that we have. The first post was already condescending but this topped it by a mile.
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I’m sorry I took another look at the comments on his post. The fawning is nauseating. I was going to comment again but why bother. He tends to be Pollyanna-ish which frankly is too early for this situation.
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If ever. I’m going to read all the comments now. I just saw early ones, and none in response to the second comment, yet.
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Now everyone’s lining up to reassure him. Oh, poor misunderstood Richard.
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Right. We misunderstood him, again.
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I smell a deletion.
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LOL!!! I was wondering why they haven’t disappeared already.
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While he clearly was responding to criticism on his timeline, I wonder if he really understood the reasons behind it. After all, how could we not agree with this resounding line?
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I think his clarification indicates that he didn’t understand the reasons for the criticism at all.
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Agree! I don’t think there is any way for those of us who are not American citizens to fully grasp the anguish and the fear people are experiencing now. But, given his reaction to Brexit, I would think he could go a little way to understanding that what he posted is going to draw a reaction from people who are hurting badly. He doesn’t, clearly. That is a great shame. He should just shut the hell up now.
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OH, what a tolerant reply above from the mother superior!
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I don’t know whether you’re responding to Richard Armitage’s post, mine, or some comment here, so I don’t know how to respond to you. Maybe you can clarify.
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Détrompez- vous, nous vivons dans un monde ouvert. L’histoire mondiale regorge d’exemples. A travers le monde, beaucoup d’individus de sensibilité démocrate ont connu, connaissent et connaitront ce genre d’effroi, d’angoisse devant l’arrivée au pouvoir de démagogues extrémistes. Qui ne connaît pas dans son entourage, quelqu’un qui a subi le joug d’un gouvernement autoritaire. Voyez, ce qui se passe en Turquie actuellement par exemple. En France, depuis l’élection de Trump, la peur de subir votre sort, aux prochaines élections présidentielles en mai 2017, est réelle .
C’est une question de sensibilité et de conscience politique. Après, personne ne peut prédire l’avenir, mais il y a des signes annonciateurs.
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By now you know my French is not great, but I think I understand ( with Google’s help) and agree with you that one need not be American to feel the despair, worry and fear for the future with a Trump presidency and all that victory stands for, especially in the present global climate. Maybe I got it all wrong – what you wrote in French, but if not. we’re in agreement. I don’t think sensible, liberty-loving citizens of any democratic nation, especially in Europe now, can relax about what might happen politically in their own nations – a door was opened with Brexit, IMO.
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I’m not sure if I should reply – I think I get what he was saying, though I haven’t actually read the play (and probably won’t get to see it), but I think there are a lot of hurt feelings out there and maybe, in a day or two, comments like his might be seen in a different light. For me, there’s nothing he said to get upset about. Then again, I’m neither crying nor celebrating this election – it is what it is, and time will tell how much (if anything) will actually change. My personal opinion is that Richard was trying to be kind, and that Mr. Trump will be the biggest do-nothing President we’ve ever had. There’s still gridlock in Congress & the Republicans have already said some of his ideas are not happening. I guess that’s me trying to be optimistic. Politically we women need to come together and work with each other despite some of our ideological differences, so I think in that sense what Richard said does resonate with me at least. But I think Jennifer Lawrence actually said it better.
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i agree with what you said, tbourlon. maybe Mr. Richard Armitage was just trying to say that we should take it one day at a time, that it is not the end of the world. I wrote on Servetus’s blog about what Mr. Richard Armitage said and I said I know I couple from England who says things and to them it sounds like they are trying to give good advice but to an American(to me) it might sound like an insult. I don’t mean that Mr. Richard Armitage was insulting anybody but he was trying to just say something nice and helpful that maybe we shouldn’t be freaking out or something like that.
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But many of us think we should be freaking out, and with good reason. He was pretty freaked out after Brexit – even promoting a do-over.
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Well yes, but he’s British and actually does have a say in that – but not our election. Really, I think there’s a somewhat disturbing connection between Trump and the Brexit vote, like isolationism is the new political trend. Meanwhile, I’m not freaking out, but I am cautiously optimistic – hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Sorry, I’ll get off my soapbox now.
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I think he has a right to comment on our election, just as many Americans commented on Brexit – because it really affects the world, and not just one nation. It’s just that I think he said the wrong thing. I agree – that the Brexit result was a foreshadowing of what could happen here in the U.S., and for some, but not all, of the same reasons.
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Welcome and always feel free to comment, whether you agree or not. I don’t think his comments will be sen in a different light by anyone who, tonight, sees them as inappropriate and useless. There are a few issues – one is the line and its context first quoted. Even if you ignore that, and just focus on the desire or suggestion to dance under the circumstances, his suggestion is incredibly insensitive and shows a complete lack of understanding about what some people, many Americans, but also, as Squirrel points out, others, are feeling now. Moreover, although he cites his observation of a woman on a cell phone crying, he seems not to have understood what many of us believe is the reason for her tears. I could make an excuse for him. I could argue, since arguing is my profession – that what he meant was that, even in the face of this horrendous result, theater-goers came to his play – and thus, life goes on – but I think I’m giving him more credit than he deserves with that excuse. And his further reply shows that he cannot rightly rely on my excuse.
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I lead astray General de Gaulle’s ambiguous historical quotation and I write Perry, ” you understood me “, very well. I hope that the future would prove us, that we were mistaken about DT’s intentions. But now, R Armitage’s flagrant lack of ambition in his remarks can only disappoint us. Unlike other artists, he will not mark the offspring (posterity) with enlightened words. I joked and made hard remarks on the site of Servetus, I sincerely hope to go back. But I can only erase them if Mister Good Feelings write something sensible in this sad circumstance.
Hope my English doesn’t betrayed my thoughts. One holliday week in NY helps me to try. I was not sad, on the rainy thursday evening, as my family had been discovering him alive, on stage, for the first time. I hope or dream of men and women standing UP, as Ken Loach, Andrzej Wajda, Sting, the Beattles, Simon and Garfunkel, Léonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, … and what about Robert Redford who spoke about Donald Trump in the movie: “Peter and Elliott the dragon”.
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Not to get off the subject, but I think we saw the play on the same night! I, too, attended a performance with friends on a miserable, rainy, Thursday night ( almost the only rain during my entire visit). I hope you enjoyed New York. For me, it was my first week there – before Trump, before Comey, when there was still cautious optimism.
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What a surprise, we were together at Roundabout Theater for LLL, on the 27th october. We were middle second row BB mezzanine. We ate pudding and drank coffee or chocolate at O’Brien’s Irish Pub before the play went on. But didn’t stay to see Richard, I am too shy. It was our first travel in US, NY IS A GREAT CITY.
Did you wore red flowers on your head, in AX ORCHESTRA in the forefront first?
I wrote about that in Serv blog ( in LLL tweets 11/27, and in Collateral attractions: Stephen Hunter teases interview with Radagast (Sylvester McCoy) 11/9) •
Hope all of us keep optimism through all these good and bad days!
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sorry 27 OCTOBER
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Thank you for the kind words. Perhaps the reason we disagree is because I admit, I wasn’t as invested in the outcome on this election. But I understand that others were more invested. My daughter cried, and my co-worker was so depressed she couldn’t finish Wednesday. What I said about Trump wasn’t intended to just pat you on the back, and I wasn’t trying to suggest that you didn’t have a reason to be put off by Richard’s comments. So perhaps I’m wrong about thinking they’ll be seen in a different light. It’s possible that a man will NEVER understand why she was crying, even as he empathizes (or attempts to). But I can’t believe that Richard is in any way a Trump fan, so maybe he was trying to walk softly because he’s aware that some fans are? Just a thought on my part.
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I think that he was very, very upset about the outcome of the election and I cannot understand why people who have followed him for years would think anything else. He would be upset as someone who has lived for 5 years in the US and who has a ton of American friends and he would also be upset as a world citizen who cannot believe that Trump has been elected as the leader of the free world whose actions will affect us all. But, he didn’t comment immediately and that indicated to me that he knew that, if he did, then a lot of Americans would tell him to mind his own business. When he did, he answered indirectly by using a quote from a play. You may have just seen it and I may have read it but only a very, very small number of his fans have done so and know about Sandra and so the majority don’t have an association. To me, it reflected a typical English reaction: ‘if you didn’t laugh, then you would cry’, a comment made to me often in my lifetime, and also the ‘carry on’ attitude that we have. If he is accused of not understanding Americans then, if I may, I would like to bat the accusation back in the other direction. What do we know about him? We know he is a decent bloke who is kind and doesn’t like to hurt people. So, why do people insist that he is being hurtful when he so obviously doesn’t mean to be? And, if you do feel hurt, then I expect that your anger at the Trump voters is being unfairly aimed in his direction because you feel you’ve got to shout at someone. My take from this side of the Atlantic.
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One doesn’t have to intend harm to commit harm.
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Perhaps, and I’m sure that, in this light, you must understand how much harm your own remarks have caused, such as those on Armistice Day in the UK. In your blog, you ask for understanding and I think you expect to get it from your followers. Perhaps you and others should give RA the benefit of your understanding too and then things won’t hurt so much.
And I understand how hurt and shocked so many Americans are at the moment. On the morning after the election, I came downstairs and immediately turned on the TV. I couldn’t believe the headlines and read and reread them and then ran upstairs to wake my husband and tell him. I thought then, if I feel so shocked, what must those who supported Clinton be feeling? Because of Brexit, we also know the process you will be going through: disbelief, shock, anger, denial, protests, abusive insults cast at the other side, a conviction of their ‘stupidity’, arguments with all sorts of people, even within the family, a strong urge to behave in an undemocratic way and refuse to accept the result. Next, you will go off to the lawyers to see if there is anything you can do legally. Some will eventually stand back quietly and wait to see what happens. Others, as in the UK, will still be ranting on 5 months later. The thing is, learn to recognise the ‘enemy’. RA is not the enemy – he’s on your side, even if you mistakenly choose to misunderstand him. You’ve got enough to cope with as it is without turning on the decent people of this world, a man who doubtless cries along with you but who chooses to adopt the stiff upper lip, stay calm and carry on.
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I saw this response to Servetus after I posted my response to you. In black and white, if he is misunderstood, then it is because he did not write what he meant or choose the right words to express what he meant. He said what he said and there’s no mistaking what he said unless you torture the threads of his words more than the fabric will bear.
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“He said what he said and there’s no mistaking what he said”
Then why are there some people who love his words and others who … very clearly don’t? If RA speaks … Well, the listening side brings all their feelings with them and in this case yours and Servetus’ feelings are pain, hurt, anger, fear for the future etc. Maybe others are not as hurt as you are or maybe they handle their feelings differently and maybe they can take RA’s words as somehow comforting.
I’ve seen a few reaction here and on Servetus’ blog which reminded me a lot of a three-year old child who cannot cope with his/her feelings and lashes out to the person who’s trying to comfort him/her because the child also isn’t ready to be comforted just yet. (Please note that I am aware of the fact that I have absolutely NO idea what discussions, arguments, and trouble anyone here is facing IRL that may add to the strain.)
Oh, for the record:
I don’t think RA’s tweets were very smart or comforting.
I haven’t read or seen LLL and I don’t intend to.
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I think there is a group of fans who will love his words no matter what they are or how inappropriate or useless, so that’s my answer to why fans reacted differently. My comment was in response to a commenter who asserted that his words were mistakenly misunderstood – that he intended well. That he was expressing himself as a Brit, and that as an American, I didn’t understand his British attitude. I can only go by the words he uses. In this case, I took no comfort from his words. I don’t really understand how people can take comfort in his words under these circumstances. He comes up completely short compared to so many other similarly situated actors/celebs. And maybe it’s even worse because he’s made his true position and feeling about Trump pretty clear.So, all he had to do was try a little harder to decide what to say about how he feels. Apparently, either he chose not to take the time to look further than his current gig, or, he feels like dancing.
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I don’t require that anyone feel the way I feel about what he said, even though I think the meaning was entirely clear.
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@ Jaydee His lip wasn’t that stiff after Brexit.
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This isn’t the first time you’ve attempted to explain away criticism of Armitage by relying on some alleged cultural misunderstanding an American may have when it comes to a Brit. Trying to justify his poorly chosen words and reference because Americans don’t understand his English way of dealing with tragedy is an untenable stretch. Other Brits were able to do it better. http://mashable.com/2016/11/09/british-celebrities-react-us-election-result/#7f0IGAxeiSqJ My objection and criticism of these posts has nothing to do with the fact that he’s not American, and I think he’s probably blown away that Trump was elected. You surmised that he took time to decide what to write. I say that he should have taken more time, or discussed his post with someone else. My objection was stated in the post.You excuse his choice of quotes because, after all, just a handful of his intended audience really understood the reference. Who the hell does he think his audience is? Why do you assume a small number of his fans are familiar with the play or the reference? I can’t say I know how many fans he has – or how many of them are American or how much of his work they know. How do you know that? Anyway, the words speak for themselves. Guess what – it is about power and guns and money. The election proved that. The election proved that almost half this country doesn’t believe that under all our clothes we’re the same. The election proved that a vast number of Americans see nothing but differences. Yeah – we are going to die, but maybe now,more will die sooner rather than later. One need not know the specific reference to scratch one’s head over this quote, in which the ultimate suggestion is – hey, let’s just dance away our problems. Outrageously insensitive no matter where you were born, if you mourn the result.
His reply and attempt to explain is even worse. What British characteristic explains his condescension? Oh wait.
You say, If you don’t laugh you could cry Why do I have to laugh when I want to cry? And please,spare me – the British “carry-on” attitude. You have no monopoly on that characteristic, and if I recall, this today is an echo of your responses to your own compatriots’ disbelief in the Brexit result.
Where do you come off telling me and others that we’re attacking well-meaning Richard Armitage because we have no one else to shout out in our anger – and by the way – profound sadness – sadness, despair and fear? What do you know about who I’ve been shouting out or where my anger lies? You ask why people – me, I guess,insist have chosen to call him out for being hurtful, insensitive, clueless, when he didn’t mean to be. I’ll tell you – because he’s the one I’ve chosen to write about and he’s the one I’ve chosen to fangirl and he’s one of the ones who wrote a post that he thought people like me would see that his fans would see, and because he fu-cked it up, and maybe next time, he won’t as a result of this.
Your take from your side of the Atlantic should stay there. Your take from your side of the Atlantic, IMO has little or nothing to do with who’s Brit and who’s American – it has all to do with brooking no criticism of Richard Armitage. Lucky for us you’ll probably never have to defend him for grabbing pussy.
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@Jaydee Armistice Day is a holiday we “celebrate” in the US, too. You’ve got your opinion, I’ve got mine. The election results are what they are, Armitage has his opinion, I’ve got mine. In my world, my opinion is more important to me than either yours or Armitage’s.
I echo Perry’s statement that I doubt, based on what you have written here and elsewhere, that you have any understanding of what is going through people’s minds and hearts here.
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You see, Servetus, this appears to be a big cultural difference yet again and that’s why your words are so offensive: we do not ‘celebrate’ Armistice in the UK. Instead, we mourn, regret, remember the dead. It is a sad, contemplative day when we think of all the wasted lives on all sides and promise ourselves that we won’t let it happen again. ‘Celebration’ is absolutely the last word I would use. But, because you are from a different country which perhaps does things differently and that this affects your attitude and comprehension, I shall try to understand your lack of understanding and try not to be upset by what you have just said.
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Feel free to look up “celebrate,” Jaydee, it’s meaning 2. Even in England.
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My goodness! I’d just like to ask you how many times have I come on here and defended Richard Armitage? I have hardly ever posted anyway even though I have looked at your blog for years and have sometimes agreed and sometimes disagreed with what you have written. I don’t agree with everything RA says either but I don’t get my knickers in a twist about it or encourage others to have a go at him. But, when I do find myself not agreeing it’s over something concrete he has said, not the way he has said it which is open to interpretation on the net and which is the case here. Nor do I go on and on at length about what a dreadful, insensitive person he is, when that is patently not true. I will stand my ground and say that, yes, there are definitely cultural differences that are preventing you from understanding what I am saying or what RA was saying and are also preventing me from understanding where you are coming from. It seems like a great gulf at the moment. My lack of understanding extends to why you wouldn’t rather follow an American actor whom you think is ‘nicer’ and have more things in common with or perhaps you should follow RA for his art and not for his personality which obviously doesn’t live up to your expectations.
I will depart on a genuine wish. I know that this election has been very hard and painful for many Americans and I hope that the division and discord that it has opened up will find some form of reconciliation. In the same way, I hope a bit of harmony, understanding and plain old human kindness will return to these blogs.
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“Knickers in a twist”. How very British. Explain this statement – because I don’t understand it and can’t respond to it:
But, when I do find myself not agreeing it’s over something concrete he has said, not the way he has said it which is open to interpretation on the net and which is the case here.
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Moving this out to make the comment more readable — it strikes me as odd, if he really thought that most of his audience would not be familiar with the play or the quotation, to then choose to share something from that play with fans. (Wouldn’t you choose something you’d think would be more universally comprehensible?) It seems an odd rhetorical strategy to communicate by means of a quotation that you assume most of your readership is unfamiliar with. I think the second comment is an ex post facto justification; I think he thought it would be meaningful the first time; people didn’t jump on board (not just you and me, but plenty of other people on FB were also critical); he then backpedaled to say it was something from the play that resonated. In a way a typical behavior for him. It’s just kind of an escalation of something that’s been an ongoing problem this year — the weird discourse around politics involving statements and deletions.
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Look, in the end, for anyone who finds what RA says is, in their eyes unacceptable, the answer is clear – stop following him on Twitter, stop following him on Facebook, stop slagging him off and just forget him.
Likewise, stop blogging images about places you want to kiss him whilst at the same time unleashing vitriol over anything he says. It’s tedious and it’s not logical.
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First, since I have never commented or replied to any Richard Armtage tweet or Facebook post, I assume your comment refers to this blog and other, alluded to by you. Your advice is that if I don’t like *something* Richard Armitage says, I should stop reading *everything and anything* he says. To another blogger you say, stop admiring him and criticizing him at the same time because it’s illogical.
Why is it illogical to both praise and criticize one’s subject? In your book, it all has to be praise because you and other people don’t want to read criticism about him or maybe you think he’s reading it. What about all the fans/ commenters here and elsewhere who are discussing what he wrote, how ineffective it was, and how they are feeling about these current events? It seems you want to shut those conversations down as well. I have a better, more logical idea -you find it tedious? Stop reading.
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It’s not my experience of the world that feelings are that consistent (I only respond positively to x, or I only respond negatively to x). It’s a bit like appreciating the colors of Monet but not caring for his repetitive subject matter; or liking the emotionality of Ravel but finding his instrumentation trite; or thinking JK Rowling’s storytelling is amazing but her descriptive tendencies are wordy and out of hand; or enjoying Tom Cruise movies but not being able to bear his religious views. If that doesn’t illuminate the situation I (and others are in), I guess you live in a world where you only have one reaction to anything. I was going to make a comment about “oh, what an ideal world that would be,” but I think I’d rather see things in a complex way.
And as Perry says, no one requires you to agree or even to sympathize. One wonders why a dissident view which is small but visible (we are not the only people who hold it; read the FB comments; we’re just the easiest people to talk to about it) creates so much consternation in a majority that thinks everything Richard Armitage says is worthy of praise.
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It’s striking how often these conversations develop (degenerate?) into a discussion of the limits of freedom of expression. Sign of the times?
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Depends on your time frame. This is nothing new. All I’m waiting for now is the “AOA” accusation.
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I had a conversation with my father last night about a minor protest that occurred at a city council meeting close to here on Veterans’ Day; a councilwoman did not stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. Apparently it wasn’t planned; it was a sort of spontaneous expression of her frustration. She was (unsurprisingly) excoriated. Dad was really angry and as I asked him about what he was saying, it emerged that he really thinks that if you aren’t prepared to stand for the Pledge at all times, no matter what happens, you should resign from the city council. He could not state a single instance in which he thought anyone would be justified in protesting this way. It made me think (particularly in the context of the Veterans Day celebrations [!]) that It’s like we’re protecting a constitutional right to protest, but only in the absence of people who use it. You’re entitled to free speech only as long as you never speak freely. If anyone else disagrees, then it’s not a legitimate protest. I’m still trying to wrap my mind around this.
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These days I would have trouble reciting those words – one nation . . . indivisible . . .with liberty and justice for all. Not sure that pledge is going to apply to future circumstances.
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In practical terms, I wonder how many adults have to recite it regularly, apart from teachers (and I think that’s part of the problem, frankly, there’s a piece of saying it that strikes that childhood experience emotional nerve). But if you’re going to protest, it seems like that’s a good place to do it. Nobody wants to protest in a place where they are going to be ignored.
And yeah. One nation … one has hopes of it being one nation, maybe.
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There could be some argument that she was a public employee – might have some restrictions on protests. Frankly, I’ surprised they recite the pledge at City Council meetings.
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She gets $5k a year, so I guess that makes her an employee of some kind. Although, from the news coverage, no one raised that issue.
You’re surprised they say the pledge; I’m surprised that they apparently don’t pray before meetings, lol 🙂 I know they do out in the country.
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Ah yes – legislative prayer. A nick in The Constitution.
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I should say a nick *to* The Constitution.
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The New York Times’s review: In ‘Love, Love, Love,’ All You Need Is Selfishness.By BEN BRANTLEY OCT. 19, 2016
“Mr. Armitage is just as good, capturing the passivity of a man who both resents and enjoys being led by a streamlined bulldozer. Best known as the mighty Thorin Oakenshield in the “Hobbit” movies, this English actor was also the best John Proctor I have ever seen, in Yael Farber’s production of Arthur Miller’s “The Crucible” at the Old Vic in London. Here he tones down his natural intensity to remind us that the seemingly soft, spineless and charming can be as damaging, in their way, as two-fisted bullies”. These last words were sadly premonitory. But I should remember the other ones.
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